Another big black eye for the God crowd
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Intrepid reader Ray sent me a link to this heartwarming article from Wisconsin about an 11 year old girl who died of undiagnosed diabetes, while her parents prayed over her. From the article,
The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.
Now, I'm thinking that if your kid slips into a coma, and you don't take her to the doctor because you're too busy praying, you are the living, breathing EPITOME of a fucking fruit-loop, waste-of-oxygen, brain-dead God-drunk fanatic. Seriously. For fuck's sake people, if sitting and watching while your kid dies in front of you, because you think God is going to reach down and fix everything, isn't fucking FANATICISM (with a capital F A N A T I C I S M), I don't know what is. But I do know that I'm really hoping the rest of their kids get taken away from them, and the parents get locked the fuck up for a nice long time over this.
And in this case, it might actually happen … while 44 states in the US have laws stating that parents who belong to a recognized religion with objections to conventional medical care can't be charged with child abuse for letting their children get prayed to death (Yep. You read that right. It's actually written in law books all over the country that parents can legally sit and watch their children die, if their religion disapproves of conventional medical care.), Mrs. Neumann there just slaughtered her own best legal defense by saying they don't belong on an organized religion. So thank heavens, her and her oxygen thief hubby MIGHT just get the book thrown at them.
Years ago, I read a story about a child with a tumor on her leg damn near the size of a watermelon. Had the child gone to the doctor sooner, it could have been removed, and she would have had a good chance of surviving the bone cancer that eventually killed her. But her Christian Scientist parents refused to obtain any medical care for her. Rita Swan, an former Christian Scientist herself, documents a large number of cases where children died for their parents' religious beliefs. (I also found an extensive policy report on the subject from Massachusetts Citizens for Children.)
Under what jacked-up excuse for "liberty" is a parent allowed to let their child die because their fucked up interpretation of a holy book says so? YOU have the right to refuse medical care for your self, sure. I won't argue against any adult's right to die however they see fit. But if the Christian Right is going to tell me I have no right to have an abortion, because a fucking embryo has a right to life, why aren't those same anti-abortion zealots out picketing Christian Science "practitioners" who get paid to pray over full-fledged post-natal children while they die of treatable ailments? You fuckheads who go around bombing abortion clinics need to visit Ms. Swan's article, print out the list of wingnut religious groups that allow these deaths, and go bomb their fucking churches too. Surely a child should have the same "rights" post-birth as you claim they have in the womb? (The Christian Science church, fwiw, has no official position on abortion.)
Either way, it's not like the Religious Right is a stranger to hypocrisy. Never mind them. But even the Supreme Court recognized (back in 1944, in Prince v. Massachusetts) that the right to religious freedom does NOT include the right to kill your children:
The right to practice religion freely does not include liberty to expose the community or child to communicable disease, or the latter to ill health or death…. Parents may be free to become martyrs themselves. But it does not follow they are free, in identical circumstances, to make martyrs of their children before they have reached the age of full and legal discretion when they can make that choice for themselves.
(So, could someone please tell me why NONE of these cases are being taken to the fucking Supreme Court, after some misguided, soft-headed fuckface excuse for a judge overturns an initial conviction?! Oh … wait … after 8 years of BushCo appointees, we might want to hold off on that until a few justices get replaced. But please, ACLU, keep that thought in mind.)
I recently got into an argument elsewhere online about child welfare agencies this week. An overly zealous anti-government type was arguing that it's absolutely nobody's business how parents choose to raise their kids … up to and INCLUDING religious wingnuts letting their children die of preventable/treatable diseases by choosing prayer over medical care. Oh, but she did specify that intervention is OK in the case of "abuse". I couldn't help but think if begging your invisible daddy in the sky for help instead of going to a fucking hospital while your child is dying isn't abuse, what in the fuck is?! Never mind all that, she doesn't want the gol-durned government raising her children for her!
Fact is, yes, child protective services remove children from homes they don't need removing from, and a shockingly high number of foster homes and group homes are as abusive as the families the children were removed from. It's a fucked-up, underfunded, overloaded system, without sufficient neutral oversight and children's advocates. But a lot of children ARE helped by it … as opposed to the religious nuts who'd rather have a child die a slow, painful, horrific death, than go to the hospital for basic care. Religious exemption clauses need to be removed from abuse/neglect laws, before more children needlessly die for their parent's supernatural delusions.
Holy. Bloody. Crap.
There's not much else I can say about that.
28th March 2008 at 7:14 pm | permalink |Ha.
28th March 2008 at 8:38 pm | permalink |Maybe you babykilling pro-aborts can stop murdering helpless unborn babies. Just how does it feel to be a babykilling pro-abort? I know, all you can do is spout profanity and do some namecalling against those with whom you disagree.
28th March 2008 at 9:15 pm | permalink |Wow, I couldn't have said it better myself. I've been saying the same fucking thing ever since I heard this story. Not only should these idiots be jailed, they should never be allowed to be in contact with their children again. Period.
28th March 2008 at 9:15 pm | permalink |"We believed" … "to us, it looked like she was recovering" … even though religious beliefs are not a pre-requisite for medical or nursing school, but a rote demonstration of an ability to understand and apply logic and reason is. Shit in one hand, [pray] in the other and see which one fills up first.
**** Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do." ****
Well, then you're a couple of fucking idiots with no business raising a child because "the best [you] know how to do" is horribly, terribly inept. I hope your god can forgive you for desecrating his gift of intelligent thought, and breaking the fourth commandment by taking the life of another by an act of omission.
Laziness, stupidity, religion. It's all the same thing.
28th March 2008 at 10:11 pm | permalink |@rev spitz: It feels a lot better than being five months into an unwanted pregnancy. :-) Thanks for asking! And thanks also for completely avoiding the point of the article and attempting a mostly irrelevant ad hominem attack instead.
Oh, and I prefer "embryo flushing pro-abort," thanks. ;-)
28th March 2008 at 10:41 pm | permalink |I'm so glad my parents aren't in any of those religions that believe healing comes from God. They are pretty religious though (Catholics…ew. Lol). I totally agree with you on the abortion part. I'm beginning to see more and more how much Religious Freaks are hypocrites. Wow.
I was looking at the list of kids killed by that too…and omg. I almost started crying reading some of those stories. It's really sad knowing people would put their religion before their childs health. :/
@Rev Donald Spitz: Grrrr to you. Thats all I have to say.
28th March 2008 at 10:57 pm | permalink |So I was talking to my mom about this (who is a Christian), just wondering what her thoughts on the subject where. And I quote," They're fucking retarded."
28th March 2008 at 11:05 pm | permalink |She says, that yes, prayer can help (I don't believe that garbage but this is her talking), but 'God' gives the knowledge to the doctors to help people. Or so she says. So the parents, even if they were religious whether they say they are or not, should have taken her to a doctor. Either way those parents are fucking murderers.
Hmmmm, I completely agree, a total waste of oxygen. I do believe if they lived in my neighborhood they would happen to "disappear". Or die for unknown reasons in their sleep…Perhaps their god was answering someone else's prayer and he hasnt installed "prayer-waiting" yet.
@rev donald spitz
have you read your post. I could quote half a dozen bible passages at you about the sanctity of allowing other people their beliefs and thoughts. Dont know any that say "Dont kill your unborn fetus". If you want to help… stop being part of the fucking problem.
Fuck is a word, I use it to express myself, a right protected by the constitution. You should allow me my opinions and turn the other cheek, an option espoused by your Bible ( the best selling work of fiction ever written, by the way, well done.)
cheers
29th March 2008 at 4:07 am | permalink |Sad, sad, sad. Its the problem of two stupid people getting together and then reproducing.
The deal with the anti choice people is that once someone is actually born, they could give a rat's ass about them. Because that is really more complicated than their simple minds can handle.
29th March 2008 at 7:34 am | permalink |@aimee: My parents weren't even particularly religious, thankfully. I'm quite happy to have grown up without all the guilt that usually comes along with it. heh
@tony p: Thankfully, the Christian groups that actually espouse faith healing as the only form of medical care allowed are definitely a minority. But that really makes me wonder how in the fuck they successfully lobbied for such horrific legal loopholes for themselves in the first place …
29th March 2008 at 12:09 pm | permalink |Potential life with no emotional attachment beyond, *POSSIBLY*, the pregnant woman.
<>
Suffering child with a curable disease or condition, refused treatment.
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Chalk up another one for they whose very existence is their own best argument against natural selection.
29th March 2008 at 7:55 pm | permalink |Dear Rev Spitz,
I am a baby killing pro abort. I have never actually engaged in the activity but I love that God, you know my God, the one you claim to follow allows me to make decisions on my own. He has this really awesome thing called free will and he gave it to everyone! He also gave me intellect. Enough of it to know that people like you are the scum of the earth who will quickly condemn anyone who isn't as "saintly" as you are.
I believe it was Jesus Christ who said "If any man here is without sin, cast the first stone."
- Hellationships aka B.
Sigh. I really detest people who talk like him. It makes me so sad that there are "christians" claiming to spreading hateful dogma.
Blah. Makes it hard to actually BE christian.
29th March 2008 at 8:35 pm | permalink |aphabitch:
I think I'm the only person I know who doesn't have that christian guilt. I live my life as best I can and when I die, I'll know whether it all exists or I wont… and I'll just be dead.
29th March 2008 at 8:37 pm | permalink |Rev Spitz,
are you perhaps a woman? Of course not, you can't even get married since that would mean your fortunes will pass to your wife and children.
Do you think you have the moral authority to control the uterus of other woman?
Well you fucking don't, living people have priority from fetches or stem cells who cannot be called human.
BTW the human organism commits a "stemicide" in each pregnancy! The organism kills the non fit cells so that only the best will become babies.
30th March 2008 at 2:03 am | permalink |They should be fucking locked up, end of. If a satanist prayed over their child to be healed by the horned one, they would get fucking locked up. So it is *fine* that the bible bashin' religious whackjobs are allowed to? I think NOT!
To me, it is abuse. Medical care is available and they choose to ignore it in favour of some magical cosmic jewish zombie who has never been proven to exist….
May I just add at this point, I am not anti-jewish - I have jewish friends. I am however taking the piss out of and anti-jesus crap.
….whilst surgeons do exist. You can speak to one and get a reply! Seriously I respect a persons right to believe in whatever the fuck they want to believe in, but to push it on their kids is fucking stupid, no infact it is diabolical.
At Rev Whatever: How can an already born child be likened to an embryo? I mean don't get me wrong, personally I would not have an abortion BUT that is me, each to their own. Christ you cannot judge, people have their reasons.
Does the bible not speak about forgiveness and understanding? Or is that invisible too?
Anyway by what you just said you have anally fucked yourself because *tada* your being a hypocrite! IF it is so wrong to have an abortion THEN it is ALSO EQUALLY AS wrong to let a child die! Same thing! Feckless….
30th March 2008 at 12:08 pm | permalink |@adam seale: "they whose very existence is their own best argument against natural selection." LOL!
@hellationships: I can't even imagine living my life feeling guilty about half the things I do for fun … That'd be seriously depressing.
30th March 2008 at 3:15 pm | permalink |As an atheist–raised a strict Catholic–I've learned one personal truism:
Life is far less enjoyable when one lives life to ensure they don't violate inconsequential rules and abide by the wishes of others.
Which is one of the things that really pisses me off reading this story. What rule would it have broken to CONSULT A FUCKING DOCTOR!? What perceived wish of another would have been violated if they had CONSULTED WITH A FUCKING DOCTOR!?
30th March 2008 at 3:50 pm | permalink |@becca: Apparently they think it would make God angry to second-guess Him like that? I mean really, doesn't that sound like a perfectly good reason to let your child die?
30th March 2008 at 4:42 pm | permalink |Ssssshhhhh……these religious nutjobs are in power and their prayers to the almighty might bringeth smite upon thee…..
in the very very unlikelihood that god exists, it's probably laughing at our stupidity, especially the ones praising "IT"
thanks AlphaBitch for your commentary on this heinous crime
cheers!
31st March 2008 at 6:13 am | permalink |Amen, Sister.
31st March 2008 at 9:16 am | permalink |@ray: Ooh, thanks for the warning. I'll go get my god-proof tinfoil bodysuit on. ;-)
31st March 2008 at 4:31 pm | permalink |Ahh humans…
This really is a sick and vile thing for parents to do. Others have made the mistake as well and many more will before the end…. I mean If I had a stick big enough I would smack em all to seeing some common sense but I digress.
Humans are easily misguided and almost every single one of them think they are right no matter what. Just like I am sure if there was a anti-doctor verse in the Bible I would know about it. I could take the time to point out some that state to keep yourself in good health , protect your kids from ills and don't let people suffer but I am fairly sure we all know those are in there. Honestly I see no logical, religious, or moral reason to kill your own flesh and blood (Once they are over a certain age within the womb mind you).
Not even going to get started on Christian scientists that group of clap trap mumbo jumbo fuck tards. Hell my post is too long as is.
However there I go falling into another Sin. I do not judge them. I will let you all do that for me =) I simply pray that they do not have the chance to do this with another of there children and find someway to gain forgiveness from there child whom they have noway to ask.
Since the topic was borough up mr Rev was it. I could do like hellationships (Which btw your not alone in the dislike of hate Dogma and a lack of Christian guilt. I pray for my sins and know it is impossible for me to be sinless. Just like everyone else) and quote some from the Bible but here is what I am thinking, You are either A) A little shit that felt like trying to get a goat, B) you are a big fat shit that felt like trying to get a goat or C) You are a Christian that quite like the rest of the 96% or so seem to feel that due to that fact you hold some higher authority on morels then anyone else. Which in any of those cases your not really worth the time. You wouldn't listen since you think you know it all and I would have a much more pleasurable time getting a BJ from my wife so I am out of here.
Oh and one note before I go. The tinfoil suit is ufo proof. You need a copper wire one. ;-p
1st April 2008 at 5:21 pm | permalink |@raven: Copper wire? Shit. That's gonna be expensive. ;-)
1st April 2008 at 10:01 pm | permalink |that kinda of crap is always sad especially if it's something a doctor could have easily done something about it to save the child's life. it drives me bonkers and breaks my heart to read about stuff like that.
3rd April 2008 at 3:00 pm | permalink |@swayla: The thing that really gets me is that 40+ states in the US allow parents to get away with it!
I just can't fathom how "freedom of religion" can be reasonably construed to include allowing the preventable death of a child …
3rd April 2008 at 3:10 pm | permalink |That IS a fanatic view. You can't judge a group by one representative. That's so ignorant. It's quite similar to the racism you hate so much.
17th April 2008 at 12:59 pm | permalink |Your points are weak. Your views are ignorant. You're just getting yourself all up in a tizzy and spewing curse words. Like I've said in previous comments, I don't disdain your views. I just take issue with your language, presentation, and judgmental attitude.
I'm going to keep you in my prayers.
@macie: I'm not judging all Christians because of the hardcore Christian Scientists and other fanatical anti-medicine whack-jobs … I am very specifically talking about the people who won't take their kids to a doctor.
I'm a little baffled as to why you keep assuming I'm talking about ALL Christians as soon as I criticize ANY of them?
17th April 2008 at 4:05 pm | permalink |I find this discussion difficult to take.
Why should people NOT have the right to treat their chidren in any way they choose - even if it means those children die.
After all how many children have been killed by doctors prescribing incorrect drugs and for anyone who believes that a doctor with modern medicine is always right look at the case of Thalidomide - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide
There are also still concerns about the MMR vaccine given to chilren in many countries.
Would the same argument have been a vehement if the parents had called in an acupuncturist rather than a priest?
Another question - why should you argue for freedom of choice when it comes to abortion and against it when it comes to faith healing.
Finally then after some brilliant arguments for the responsibility of parents here http://www.f-ckingc-nts.com/people/news-of-the-weird-holy-fuckballs-responsible-parents
23rd April 2008 at 2:23 pm | permalink |and here http://www.f-ckingc-nts.com/people/what-about-the-little-bitches-fucking-parents the arguments for removal of parental responsibility in cases like this have to be considered a little thin.