"Where are you from, anyway?"
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So, this weekend we drove a couple hundred miles South to go ice climbing, as we often do this time of year … often enough that we're practically locals in a few bars and hotels along the way. And we're always running late. This week, we were later than usual … still a half hour out from the hotel in Healy at 11:30 at night. D asked the owner at Clear Sky Lodge if she knew how late they were open.
An older man at the bar spoke up, quite a bit gruffly, "What are you doing driving the Parks [highway] at this hour, in the middle of nowhere?!" (the unspoken subtext being something along the lines of, "You dumbshit tourists, are you trying to end up dead?")
D said we were going ice climbing down in Healy, and the older man groused, "Where are you from, anyway?!" (subtext being, "You stupid tourists, I don't care how tough you think you are, this is Alaska. Let me tell you something …")
D said we were from Fairbanks.
The older man said, "Oh! Well, OK then," and his condescending/paternal tone evaporated. The bartender piped up that we drive through there all the time, etc., and next thing you know, the older man is recommending new ice falls for us to find. With one word, "Fairbanks," we'd gone from morons who shouldn't be driving after dark, to people who shouldn't have any trouble climbing 1000 feet up a mountain side to reach a sheet of ice, for no reason but our own entertainment. Is such an assumption well founded? Probably not, but it's people like Chris McCandless who encourage that kind of attitude up here.
And that, in a nutshell, is what most people don't "get" when they see Into the Wild. There have been a shit-ton of newbies and tourists who came to Alaska to live some big adventure, and died. Enough that random men in bars get all wound up for a lecture if they think you're on your way to becoming one of them. The only really unique thing about McCandless, as opposed to most of the other newcomers who die up here, is that he was not killed by a bear, he did not break a leg falling down a mountain, nor did he die of exposure. He died of a far more preventable cause than average.
I doubt that any of the negative comments I've received on 10 True Facts About Christopher McCandless were from Alaskans. I have yet to meet someone who's lived here for more than a couple years who has any sympathy for him at all. The commenters who said, "You couldn't have done what he did," are wrong. I certainly could wander off into the middle of nowhere and starve to death. However, I wouldn't do something that fucking stupid. Because I don't want to die. If I was planning on spending months in the backcountry, I'd bring a fuck lot more food in the first place. I'd also bring proper supplies for preserving meat. I'd bring a good first aid kit. I'd bring a satellite phone, and hopefully arrange to meet up with someone once a month or so, who knew where I was, who could bring more supplies, and come look for me if I didn't show up to meet them on time.
And I'd make damn sure I knew a safe route to get back out, if something went wrong.
Could I do what McCandless did? Sure I could. But the reason the man at Clear Sky changed his tone when D said we were from Fairbanks is that no self-respecting Alaskan would do what he did. Because they would be (rightly) afraid of ending up dead too. How many jokes are there about poor, clueless country bumpkins losing their way in the big city? This is the same fucking thing, in reverse. Walk through the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time of day in a big city, you might get killed. Wander off into the woods without a decent clue to your name? Same thing.
I just watched the movie last night, finally. I did not particularly enjoy it. I was not moved by it. The character development was for shit, and during every scene I watched showing McCandless alone, I couldn't help but think, "They're making this shit up." The kid didn't keep a good enough diary to make a movie that consists of anything but pure bullshit, and the ending was the biggest, smelliest pile of them all. About the only thing I took away from that movie is even less sympathy for his fucked-up, fuckup parents. I do feel sorry for his sister. I also feel sorry for the old man who wanted to adopt him … but McCandless himself? Nah. No sympathy.
One of my best friends here is the same age Chris would be today. He moved to Alaska in 1990, two years earlier than McCandless. He lived in a Ford Maverick for a couple of years (through the Winter even, because he's a damn lunatic). He once spent the summer camping in the middle of nowhere. He wasn't some Eagle Scout expert woodsman when he got here, but he knew he wasn't Grizzly Adams reincarnated, and he wasn't trying to be.
He doesn't have a college degree, and he doesn't go around quoting high-minded literature, but he has enough common sense to stay alive. He lived in the Maverick parked behind a remote lodge, where he could earn some money, and get regular meals. When he spent a summer in the woods, he had someone to bring him supplies. You might look at that and say McCandless was the braver man … that my friend never did anything as "visionary" and adventurous as Christopher. But Chris McCandless is dead, and D's still around to go ice climbing with me.
Cops Beat The Living Hell Out Of Peaceful Tibetan Protesters IN AMERICA
http://www.infowars.net/articles/march2008/250308Protesters.htm
This is off topic but I just wanted to see if you had heard about this, and get your take.
@Chris McCandless
For all the time you spent planing and preparing to venture out into the great unknown, leave society behind, and free yourself from it's shackles, it sure seamed like you didn't have a clue what you were getting yourself into. The attempt to portray you in a light that makes you out to be some fucking visionary who is so damn smart, or anything other then a fucked up misguided idiot, misses the mark completely… because you sure are fucking dead.
@anyone who wants to be inspired in the light of counterculture and nonconformity.
Go watch Fight Club again or read the book…
@alphabitch.
I hope the ice climbing went well.
25th March 2008 at 11:50 pm | permalink |@secularsuperman: Damn … I'm on dialup at the moment, but I'll watch that tomorrow, and probably do a new post.
re: McCandless, "you sure are fucking dead" sums it up quite nicely. ;-)
As for Fight Club though, loved the book and the movice, but I'd imagine most of McCandless' fans wouldn't be into anything that terrible and violent. There wasn't much spiritual seeking and communing with nature going on. lol
And the climbing didn't turn out so great. The hike up was terrific, but the fall was tucked around a corner in the shade, with some nice wind on top of the 5ºF weather … we ended up hiking back down and hoping for better weather this weekend. So it goes. The weather is quite often not your friend up here. ;-)
26th March 2008 at 12:07 am | permalink |@alphabitch
Great! I'm the first "moron (person w/o an Alaskan zip code)" to chime in!
1)"Alaska" is just another word. There's nothing particularly unique about it. There are mountains, valleys, flora and fauna all over this big ball of mud we each home. In the larger scheme of things (unless you're an Eskimo), nobody is really "from Alaska" beyond the fact that they are "from earth". Pretending to be wiser or better off than someone else who happens to hail from a different longitude or latitude is ridicules (unless you're an Eskimo).
2)Let's see …. McCandless did not succumb to a bear attack, did not drown in a raging river, did not die while climbing, did not freeze to death, did not get lost in the wilderness and did not die at the hands of angry ice-climbing natives from Fairbanks. As a matter of fact, although he had plenty of opportunities to do otherwise, his demise was attributed to something very un-Alaskan like indeed…. illness and starvation (two very common causes of death world-wide).
3) To heap any portion of the blame on McCandless's parents for the way he died in "Alaska", is completely and totally overshadowed by the credit McCandless and his parents deserve for the way he DID NOT perish in Alaska.
4) I would say that McCandless exhibited more talent for staying alive in the wilderness during his ill fated adventure than you will a disport in a lifetime of being tucked away in your Fairbanks log dollhouse. ;-)
26th March 2008 at 12:14 am | permalink |Note to self: Do not press "Submit comment" before you proof-read.
26th March 2008 at 12:23 am | permalink |@richard: 1) Wiser or better off? Like not being dead because you understand and avoid the risks of the environment you're in?
As for nothing particularly unique, that's probably true, if you're comparing Alaska to similarly sparsely populated Northern regions of Canada. I'd hazard a guess you haven't spent much time in rural Alaska though.
2) Not sure what your point is? I already said dying of starvation was unusual … so … umm … yeah. (Or was this point where you made the typo?)
3) I don't think his parents deserve much credit at all for the ways he did not die. He does, sure. But like secularsuperman said, he "sure [is] dead now." So, all credit where it's due.
4) If "talent for staying alive in the wilderness" doesn't get you anywhere but dead, he can keep it. ;-)
26th March 2008 at 12:43 am | permalink |Well having never been there I cannot comment but I was in a bar in Liverpool one night (with a friend) and everyone was being really nice until I asked the bartender for a drink and he said….
"Oh your from Bolton aren't you?"
and I said "Yeah how do you know"
He said "Because my wifes from Bolton and I can't tell a bloody word she says either!"
So everyone took the piss all night, but we got free beer!
I am going to have to watch that movie on McCandless.
26th March 2008 at 1:54 am | permalink |@nocturna: Bolton, really? hahahaha! I stayed in Atherton for three months a couple years ago, and spent quite a bit of time in/near Bolton. I think it's a lovely accent … it's the Liverpudlians who talk funny. ;-)
But free beer in exchange for taking a bit of abuse … well, imagine what I had to put up with coming over from Bush-land! heheheh
26th March 2008 at 2:05 am | permalink |@nocturna: Hey, have you been to the Bolton Beer Festival at the Howcroft? I went there twice … holy hell, I've never seen such a quantity of such good beer in my life!
26th March 2008 at 2:09 am | permalink |I thought the movie was pretty good. It has inspired me to someday set up camp and die of starvation.
26th March 2008 at 7:03 am | permalink |@ richard. WTF? That's like saying that because I've spent my whole life in the city I know shit about city life and being safe in said city. You aren't "better" for living there but you ARE better prepared to live in that environment and make better decisions.
@ Alphabitch.
I've never seen the movie and I have absolutely no inclination to go to alaska and climb anything. lol I'm an East Coast City Kid and I love my concrete jungle.
26th March 2008 at 7:48 am | permalink |If you know what you are doing and take off on some wild adventure and take all necessary precautions but still end up dead, well I guess you should not have done it.
If you thought "Oh this will be cool" and die because you wanted the adventure but had no clue what you were doing then thank you for removing one more fucking moron from the world. They call it survival of the fittest.
26th March 2008 at 10:06 am | permalink |I just perused the comments on the previous post about the film. Regarding the statement that the moose was not poached because subsistence hunting is allowed………funny thing is, you still need a subsistence hunting permit for that. The moose was still poached. I used to work for the Search and Rescue coordinator here in Southeast Alaska. Many, many people die here in Alaska during the summer because they head out for simple day hikes totally unprepared for the weather, wildlife and terrain. Nobody is saying to not live your dream of experiencing the wilderness, but living your dream requires preparation or else you'll die. If your dream is to die in the wilderness of Alaska, then by all means go for it.
26th March 2008 at 11:05 am | permalink |@ Richard:
#1 - After living in an area for an extended period of time one acquires something called "tribal knowledge." It's that sort of shared knowledge and understanding of the inherent risks one learns from experience. If one does enough climbing one will learn very quickly–especially along the front range–that you need to reach the summit and be on the way back down by noon. Every year we get multiple stories of people who have tried to challenge that wisdom and lost.
#2 - McCandless didn't die of HIV/AIDS, auto accident, or heart attack, either, but these are also very common causes of death worldwide. Engaging in inherently risky behavior, i.e., venturing into the Alaskan wilderness without a long term plan for survival, is either suicidal or just plain stupid. Shall I take it a step further? If McCandless had died from AIDS after repeatedly having indiscriminate, unprotected sex with multiple, high-risk partners, we'd call that stupid. If McCandless had died in a car accident in which he was driving at high speed without a seat belt, we'd call that stupid. If McCandless had died of cardiac arrest after consuming a diet extremely high in cholesterol while living a very sedentary lifestyle, we'd call that stupid. If not "stupid" then at least deserving of his fate. Why should we view wandering off into the Alaskan wilderness, completely unprepared, as anything less?
#3 - McCandless DID NOT perish in Alaska when hit by a falling satellite/meteor. Nor did he perish from:
* Liver failure
* Botulism
* Gunshot
* Stingray
* Shark attack
* Gangrene
* Black mamba bite
* Ricin poisoning
* Terrorist attack
* Radiation sickness
* Stung by a bark scorpion
* Cleft in two by a machete in the hands of a tribal warrior
And I totally credit him and his parents for the fact that he didn't perish under any of those circumstances.
#4 - Some talent.
26th March 2008 at 12:06 pm | permalink |@akshelby
Last time I checked, everybody in this country (Alaska included)is innocent until proven guilty. Whether you happen to like it or not, given the fact that McCandless was never charged with nor convicted of hunting without a permit or poaching …. then he can't be guilty of "Poaching". He killed a moose. End of story.
As for those people who "die here in Alaska during the summer because they head out for simple day hikes totally unprepared for the weather, wildlife and terrain" … what does that have to do with the price of tea in China … or Chris McCandless's story? tntlmao :-X
26th March 2008 at 12:14 pm | permalink |@Becca
I seriously doubt that anybody could live anyplace (and that includes the Alaskan wilderness)… "completely unprepared" for 25 days, much less 112 days. Give credit where credit is due. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes …. be slow to criticize, because the "truth" of the matter is … you just don't know. :)
26th March 2008 at 12:40 pm | permalink |@richard: The laws on hunting up here are quite simple and very clear. There are areas where you can't hunt at all, and there are areas where you can only hunt with a permit. If you shoot a moose in an area where you aren't allowed to hunt, it's poaching. If you shoot a moose without the appropriate permit, it's poaching.
McCandless did not have a permit, therefore the moose he killed was, in fact, poached.
If you chug a six pack of beer and then hop in your car and drive home, you are drunk driving, whether you're caught and convicted or not.
Seriously, if you want to keep arguing about shit, go right ahead, but the poaching question has been quite thoroughly addressed.
26th March 2008 at 1:47 pm | permalink |@Thomas P: I'd say "You LIVE the dream, man!" But the "live" part seems out of place. ;-)
@Hellationships: See, I love visiting concrete jungles (well, some of them anyway), but I'd hate to live in one. ;-)
Jim - Just a Guy: Yep, that's pretty much my point. :-) But apparently marching off into the middle of nowhere without enough supplies to keep yourself alive is actually heroic, romantic and visionary … shows what I know, eh? hehe
26th March 2008 at 2:01 pm | permalink |@alphabitch I think the problem is that we have reversed evolution and we protect the stupid instead of letting them kill themselves off. I see it everyday when I actually feel the need to stop and ask myself "why are there directions on a bottle of shampoo?" or some other stupid warning on that should be common fucking sense.
26th March 2008 at 2:44 pm | permalink |@richard
-be slow to criticize, because the "truth" of the matter is … you just don't know. :)
1st: let me say I hope you're a 14 year old girl because the use of smiley's at the end of your posts make me want to vomit.
2nd: the “truth” of this matter is that Chris McCandless was an idiot. The facts are overwhelming, indisputable, and much more then circumstantial in support of this conclusion.
3rd: I do know, without doubt, that this could not nor will it ever happen to me. As such I'll criticize the fuck out off the story and its sympathetic stance, and so should everyone else.
26th March 2008 at 2:47 pm | permalink |@richard, and Becca.
You both mention something about him being “completely unprepared” but the facts, being what they are, are absolutely contrary to this idea. He was as “unprepared” as he chose to be. The dip-shit spent months wandering around, preparing to leave society behind, and telling people about it. In this light there is a drastic difference in being “unprepared” and being UNDER-prepared.
This guy made a choice and had a plan… both were idiotic, making him an idiot.
If you plan to venture off into the wilderness I recommend you say away from the writing of Thoreau, London, and Tolstoy… Grate literature true, but fucking worthless in the face of starvation. Instead, I recommend you study Immanuel Kant's “categorical imperative”.
Also, trying to give credit or lay blame on his parents is fucking retarded… making you all a bunch fucking retards! Being that Chris wasn't a dependent (I.e. Over the age of 18 and not mentally handicapped) his parents, family, friends, the holy ghost etc… have fuck all to do with anything.
26th March 2008 at 2:51 pm | permalink |@secularsuperman: I totally agree that he had more than enough time to fully prepare himself for pretty much anything Alaska had to throw at him. He was willfully unprepared … but "unprepared" vs. "UNDER-prepared" is just semantic bickering. He obviously wasn't properly prepared, however you choose to phrase it, and we all know it was his own stupid fault. ;-)
As for his parents though, one's childhood upbringing has a lot to do with how a lot of people turn out as adults … I'm not going to hazard an analysis of some guy who didn't even leave a good diary behind, but it sure looks like he wasn't any kind of exception to that rule.
26th March 2008 at 3:05 pm | permalink |An old friend of mine, Herb Crisler, embarked on an adventure to walk across the Olympic Mountain range, alone, without food or weapons. Herb's plan was for the trip to take about three weeks. Unfortunately, he slipped and fell about week after he left, and he broke his left leg.
Since Herb didn't have any way to call for help, some could argue that he was a moron for allowing himself to be stuck in that situation, and he deserved whatever fate that became him out there in the wilderness. I'm sure that alphabitch would say that his parents also shared part of the blame for his unfortunate predicament . After all, Herb had originally come from a small town in Georgia, and the only real experience he had in the wilderness was his own. He didn't have a guide with him or maps, or even someone else who could run for help. He was out there all alone in the wilderness … and it was his choice.
When I saw the Christopher McCandless movie, INTO THE WILD, I couldn't help but see some similarities. I thought Sean Penn did an admirable job of depicting what it must have felt like to be a solitary man out in the wilderness … and in trouble.
26th March 2008 at 3:13 pm | permalink |@jim: re: reverse evolution … Yep. That's why my original McCandless post was subtitled "Alaska scores another point for natural selection". ;-)
The directions on shampoo don't scare me as much as the label I saw on a hair dryer once: "Do Not Use in Shower" I'm not sure how many people dry their hair while they're still in the shower … but DON'T DO IT, for GOD'S sake!
26th March 2008 at 3:13 pm | permalink |@Richard - what it has to do with it is that those people and McCandless are both dead due to being naive about Alaska, as it seems you are, since you said Alaska is just a word and is "nothing special." If Alaska were nothing special, I somehow don't think a movie would have been made about some guy wandering off and starving to death in it.
@secularsuperman #20 You are right, he was not completely unprepared. I think I am the one who called him totally unprepared. He did survive for quite awhile, so he was "underprepared" and, yes, he made his own choices.
26th March 2008 at 3:19 pm | permalink |@richard: I'm sorry to hear about your friend, and your dogged insistence on continuing to comment on my McCandless posts makes a bit more sense now.
However, I see one major difference between your friend and McCandless: Your friend had a planned duration for the hike, and within that time frame, a healthy adult won't starve to death. Therefore, he didn't walk off without enough provisions to survive his planned trip. Beyond that …
Going unarmed? I'm not familiar with the Olympic Mts., so I don't know if there are local predators that would make an unarmed hike needlessly hazardous. That said, there are ways to avoid most animal attacks without shooting the animal … provided you see or hear them coming. So, that's not necessarily stupid either.
No map? Depending on the terrain, and the presence or absence of established trails, that may not be a hugely stupid choice either.
Your friend's big mistake appears to be walking off into a remote area without a companion or any way to call for help. I'd rank that as approximately equal to someone killed in a motorcycle accident. You're taking a risk every time you drive a vehicle, and you can minimize your risk by driving a car instead. Similarly, you take a risk every time you go hiking in a remote area, and you can minimize the risk by hiking with a companion, but accidents can't always be prevented, no matter how careful your planning may be.
Christopher McCandless, on the other hand, did not die of an accident. His story is more akin to someone taking a bike with its gas gauge on E down a rural highway, blindly hoping there's a gas station close enough that he doesn't run out of gas.
26th March 2008 at 3:40 pm | permalink |OMG :S. The movie isn't about his death in A l a s k a. I wonder if he took water proof matches? that would make him stupid if he didn't right. Or maybe his pocket knife wasn't the size you should use on this kind of trip. I highly recommend you cut the end off the movie and watch it till something usefull comes out of your ears!!!! OK, I hope I see something else that catches my eye one day, but I digress, people die every day, and with our knowledge there is no reason this should happen at all anywhere, but it does. From economic, cultural, religious, drugs, sexual std's, etc. Most could likely have been corrected and likely more self inflicted in one way or another. It's not about that, it's about living free and without obligation except the obivious unspoken one, of be decent to others. Or maybe I'm full of it and I've just wasted a bit of your time, ;P
26th March 2008 at 7:25 pm | permalink |@quetzalcoatl: See, that's exactly my problem with the damn movie. It takes the utterly preventable and premature death of some foolish young kid, and tries to turn it into some inspiring fable about the deeper meaning of life.
"A l a s k a" just so happens to be a place that gets mythologized out the wazoo already, obviously without impressing upon people that for all its beauty and remoteness, its also dangerous as hell. McCandless sure seemed to have what turned out to be a very unhealthy obsession with the place …
And while one might think that a movie about a nice young kid dying up here might serve as a cautionary tale, instead this movie turns his dumb ass into some kind of modern day folk hero for disaffected middle class city kids.
For fuck's sake man, matches and pocketknives have nothing to fucking do with what I'm saying … Christopher McCandless died because he didn't know what the hell he was doing, and I think fictionalizing and glorifying that into some kind of tragic hero worship cult is fucking disgusting.
26th March 2008 at 9:11 pm | permalink |@richard
Dah-ling you truly are an ignorant ass. DO YOU EXIST IN THIS REALITY.
Ask any "Alaskan" on the street in the interior (Fairbanks pop.36,000) and people are divided into two distinct groups "Cheechako" and "Sourdough". Cheechako translates into young and naive individual who will probably get himself hurt. A Sourdough is any one who has "lived" the life for 20 years. They speak of experience not racial heritage.Because I have lived here for close to 25 years playing in the mountains with my father, I could provide a safer guide to the White Mountains than even our beloved alphabitch
What you don't understand is that the Arctic keeps only those who are willing and capable of surviving her clime. We express disgust at those who naively venture off. We also express our utter dismay at those who martyred this fuckwit. How many other complete idiots will venture out there with the mistaken belief that this journey will somehow feed their souls.
Simply accept the fact that you do not live here. You have not experienced what we have. You are not qualified to tell us about our backyard; and we are not qualified to give lessons on how to wank off multiple gentlmen simultaniously.
@secularsuperman
Impressive blogging…I shall worship you from afar.
@alphabitch
27th March 2008 at 3:17 am | permalink |What up HO?!?
Cheers.
@Frozensiren: Have I mentioned that I love you lately? ;-)
27th March 2008 at 3:28 am | permalink |@Frozensiren
Hey pumpernickel, the distinction I made between Eskimo's and everybody else was biological. Any dickweed who has ever seen a drunken Eskimo rip off his shirt and run his muscular cuneiforms on everybody at the bar realizes that Alaskan Natives (Eskimos) are put together differently than ALL of you sourdough wannabe's. 25 yrs … Ha! Try 5,000 yrs for openers and then I "might" listen. You're just another self-important cheechako lamer (like your buddy alphabitch) in my book… so…. put THAT in your Alaskan pipeline and smoke it. LMAOO
@alphabitch
Don't feel too sorry for Herb Crisler. He made it out alive … about 112 days later …albeit very hungry … so that's where the similarities ended. I know this for a "fact" because I was standing behind the photographer when the picture you are about to see was taken ..(provide you link to this site)… right after he told the story of his survival on that true-life adventure.
@secularsuperman
I'm not a 14 yr old girl, but I do have one. :)
To everyone of you who has been quick to criticize, judge and condemn the dead … (or a dead man's parents because he's dead)…I'll just say this once and then I'm done with it. You'll have the rest of eternity to take your cheap shots soon enough … but doing it now (especially in an open forum) … is dumber than pissing up a rope.
27th March 2008 at 6:01 am | permalink |http://www.waltjames.freeservers.com/Crislers/CrislerIndex.htm
27th March 2008 at 6:03 am | permalink |lol nevermind the other page where i just asked you where you were from. i wouldn't mind living in alaska.
27th March 2008 at 10:50 am | permalink |@ alphabitch
Sorry for the lateness of reply, my turn for my internet to go tits up :( I have Richard Branson!
Yes I used to go to the Bolton Beer Festival a lot (a proud member of CAMRA!) but it used to be on Silverwell Street when I used to go. My favourites are old fart and anything from wychwood brewery.
Oh yeah the free beer made up for the piss taking :D still I think they meant it in a nice way. One of them called one of my friends "pube head" I am guessing it was because he had tight curly hair.
I don't mind any accent except for Wales, imagine my complete shock when my mother revealed I was part welsh! She waited until I was 35 to reveal that.
Hail to real ales.
27th March 2008 at 12:45 pm | permalink |*oops* I do NOT have Richard Branson nor any blackmail money ;D sorry, I HATE Richard Branson :)
27th March 2008 at 12:46 pm | permalink |@richard and everyone else!
I'm lost… Is there a conclusion to be had in all of this? I'm not sure who is arguing for what anymore (except alpha), and I think it would be just super if we could all come to some sort of understanding or compromise on this topic.
So, in the name of compromise, I have a few suggestions to putout there for your consideration and anyone else who still wants to play:
I truly admire alpha's restraint and ability to show compassion in regrades to your personal connection with these circumstances. However, I am not so inclined. How in having firsthand knowledge and experience, with these more then avoidable circumstances, and this less then intelligent decision making, can you be anything but appalled at any attempt to glorify McCandless's death? Is your loyalty to your friend so unflinching that you can't step back and ask yourself, or Herb “what the fuck were you thinking?” If another friend came to you with the same idea would you warn them, would you tell them what you know and try to prepare them? If your answer is yes, then I believe there is hope for us to reach some sort of understanding, and if it's no… then may god have mercy on your soul.
Down to the compromise: Alpha's contention is basically (and forgive me if I miss represent you love) that, apart from McCandless being an idiot and all geographic superiority aside, portraying his story in such a way that he becomes a modern hero is wrong, bad form, immoral, irresponsible, or whatever the fuck… I agree with this completely because the story in its theatrical form serves to inspire the dimwitted into setting out on there own journey of self discovery; which will result in more deaths and the mothers of America pointing fingers at everyone but them selves. Richard, what I gather from your stance on this (and again forgive me if I'm wrong) is that we shouldn't judge so harshly or so quickly, because we don't know, and couldn't know, what such an experience is like…
And after all that bullshit it has come to my attention that there is, in fact, no compromise to be had. You Sir, are an idiot… I camp, climb, cycle, run, etc… So I do know this would never happen to me because I'm not an imbecile. You, on the other hand, have personal experience with this situation, and yet you still defend it… Why? What possible motive could you have to do so? By telling us of your connection to the story you have invalidated your own argument… if you had one?
The only conclusion I draw is this: If you're inclined to engage in high risk behavior, you except the risk that are inherent with such behavior (I.e. Skydiving, motorcycles, cooking in the buff…), and the consequences of your inclination. The problem here does not stem from doing something stupid, it stems from the films misleading message and the glorification of such stupidity. It's kind of like a cigarette company clamming tobacco will make my dick bigger….
Fuck, I need to get a life….
27th March 2008 at 3:28 pm | permalink |haha… i said clamming.
27th March 2008 at 3:40 pm | permalink |lol
27th March 2008 at 4:58 pm | permalink |@richard: Crisler sounds like a much better subject for a movie then McCandless. And it also sounds like he knew the area quite well by the time he hiked into it with no supplies. Really, now that I look at that page, I don't see much of ANY similarity between him and McCandless. But so it goes.
As for the rest of your bitching, nitpicking and finger-pointing, I really don't get what your fucking problem is … but if you think everyone around here who disagrees with you is a "self-important … lamer" asshole, I really don't see why you keep wasting your time commenting.
You don't even HAVE a coherent point from one comment to the next … when you started commenting on this post, I thought maybe you'd come up with something of substance to say. As it is, I'm left with the unavoidable conclusion that you are what is known on the Internet as a troll.
Go troll somewhere else.
@nocturna: Oooh. Yeah, Wychwood does a lot of good stuff. :-) I learned how to brew my own beer after staying in Atherton and traveling around with my friend there. It's just not the same over here … even the microbrews don't quite measure up.
@secularsuperman: No! You can't get a life! We'd miss you!
27th March 2008 at 5:26 pm | permalink |And on that note, allow me to toss in my own $0.05 (adjusted for inflation)
Which part of the McCandless story are we supposed to adopt? The reality version that shows him to be either willfully stupid or suicidal, or the suspended-reality version that is meant to serve as some sort of existential soliloquy? If the latter, then let's drop all pretense and just call it fiction–because the reality is quite different.
I camp, hike, run, climb, etc. I've been through the Marine Corps, in combat, and through many other harrowing experiences and lived to see another day. As the SecularSuperman has so eloquently stated, I wouldn't follow McCandless' lead because I'm not a fucking imbecile who thinks the Alaskan back country wilderness is populated with bunnies, sparkles, flowers, and postcard views.
If one wants to gain a better understanding of their true selves and the depth of their character, there are many far less dangerous (and stupid) ways to accomplish it. First and foremost involves cultivating a little self-discipline along intellectual, emotional, and physical lines. It means having some personal honesty and integrity. At bottom, that means understanding, accepting, and accommodating for our own personal weaknesses, or working to overcome them, if possible. From everything I've read, I don't see any of that inherent in McCandless' behavior or character. What I do see–armchair psychologist that I am–is someone desperately seeking something greater to the human condition than the mundanity of existence that is "work, pay bills, get married, have kids, retire, die."
And while there isn't any single prescription for how one finds that greater meaning, it isn't necessary to aimlessly wander off into the Alaskan back country. It isn't necessary to cast aside common sense and better judgment. It isn't necessary that, in "living for the moment," one must completely disregard the future.
In the meantime, juveniles and idiots watch this movie (or don't), get some sort of hippie idealism about free existence (or don't), wander off into uncharted back country and . . . get eaten by a bear, drown in a raging torrent, fall off a cliff, or starve to death. Social Darwinism on full display.
Rest in peace, Mr. McCandless. You learned far too late that you don't get another chance to be wrong about what you think is required to survive in the wilderness. There is no inserting another quarter to play again. No "do over." No reprieve. Dead is dead, and that's the end of the line for you. Sorry, but it's a simple, terrible fact of life. And far better people have learned that lesson under far more admirable and heroic circumstances than your idiot ass and your selfish idealism. You get a "B" for theoretical approach, but you get an "F" for execution.
27th March 2008 at 5:47 pm | permalink |@becca: Hey now, easy on the backcountry there. We have tons of bunnies, flowers and postcard views! And the snow sparkles when the weather's just right … ;-)
27th March 2008 at 6:04 pm | permalink |Every film from an artistic standpoint needs a story. Stories based on related/actual events become more believable in the mind. Movies that romantisize (sp?) actions that we wish we could do (but otherwise would be too scared/smart to do) instill a kind of friendship with those in the experience.
You might call him an unknowning fuck-tit, and I wouldn't
27th March 2008 at 6:15 pm | permalink |*continuing from before (accidentally hit tab then enter)
I wouldn't call him an unknowing fuck-tit because I spend less than 2 hours outside a month and wouldn't know survival truth if it struck me in the face.
Movies that show unrealistic stupid characters in a romantic fatalistic context will always hold a place in my heart…even though they're stupid. I felt sad for the 'Grizzly Man' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427312/) who died in the wilderness as well as this McCandells.
You show anger at the premise of the film for showing something stupid in a positive light, but its hardly the first and hardly the last movie in that respect. What seperates this movie from the stunts in the Jackass movie?(other than possibly the mood: somber vs jovial)
27th March 2008 at 6:22 pm | permalink |@autodidact: The difference between Jackass and McCandless is intent, as I see it. Jackass is a bunch of self-made stuntmen, more or less, intentionally doing stupid dangerous stuff for fun. It's not being romanticized as something wonderful and meaningful … just something entertaining and funny, if you're into that sort of humor.
As for Timothy Treadwell, I do feel bad for him. He spent years living every Summer with the same group of bears. Not getting eaten, not starving, not falling of a cliff, but actually succeeding in his goal of getting to know those particular bears well enough to be reasonably safe around them. Then he made a mistake. Ooops.
Hell, I actually stick up for Treadwell when people up here start trashing him. ;-)
27th March 2008 at 6:47 pm | permalink |@secularsuperman
The difference between you and me is … I know what Herb was thinking, because he told me. After reading your post, I know what you're thinking too, and for the most part, I think you're 100% right …. you really do need to get a life.
@alphabitch
Ha Ha .. Yeah, I'm the troll alright. I get your message loud and clear baby. This is YOUR "Flame Chris McCandless & The Horse He Rode In On" page and f^ck anybody who's got the church bells big enough to drown you out.
@Becca
27th March 2008 at 7:35 pm | permalink |Hey Wookie, Sempe Fi (PI 1969) Guess I deserve what I get for flippin a damn Walking Mattress over.
Semper* Fi
27th March 2008 at 7:41 pm | permalink |@Richard: Disagreeing with me isn't what makes you a troll, asshole. Being condescending and insulting, and deliberately trying to provoke people, while contributing nothing of substance to the conversation, over and over again is what makes you a troll.
But hey, I guess not having been a Marine means my opinion automatically means shit, since I notice Becca is 'allowed' to disagree with you without being talked down to in return.
27th March 2008 at 8:15 pm | permalink |@alphabitch
27th March 2008 at 8:40 pm | permalink |You need to get your story straight …"asshole". I give as good as I get … actually, better! :P
@Alpha
You have me at a disadvantage as I have not seen the movie in question (Into the wild). I was under the assumption that they weren't purposefully romanticizing and it came across as defacto not dejure. Intent. Yes, you're right.
BTW Richard did insult Becca too, he called her a walking mattress. Which is either an insult about promiscuity or has something to do with being wide and soft (neither particuallarly flattering, I can't get that Burger King comercial out of my head where the bed has an argument with the guy).
@Becca,
You're comments about finding worth in life without being excessive reminds of the Epicurean (sp?) ideas of learning to enjoy everything in life without resorting to excess or hedonism. Though, to be fair it also reminds me of the wikipedia entry on Buddhism.
27th March 2008 at 9:20 pm | permalink |@richard: Congratulations, you've managed to wear out my patience and interest in not one but TWO comment threads! And thanks for "asshole" … it suits me much better than "baby" ever did.
@autodidact: Re: Becca … I had a hunch "Walking Mattress" was Marine slang, and according to the Urban Dictionary, I guessed right: "1. A Woman Marine. 2. A Wookie Monster, like Chubacca." Might not be flattering, but it's not nearly the same condescending attitude he's been flipping me. ;-)
Re: The movie … it not only romanticizes him, it just plain get the facts wrong on a lot of counts, in ways that make the situation seem more sympathetic than it really was. (I wrote my first piece about it before I'd seen the movie, just based on the main factual points Sean Penn flubbed.)
27th March 2008 at 10:13 pm | permalink |Oh, Hey! I'm an ex-marine! Does my opinion mean shit?
If so…
@richard
Go semper fuck yourself…
27th March 2008 at 10:50 pm | permalink |